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No, I won't read your fucking story.
Do I have your attention, LOL?
Inspired by a post from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
minerva_one, who ganked it from cleolinda, let's take a look at why screenwriter Josh Olson has declared I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script.
Please make sure you at least read the original article before continuing.
Frankly, I am firmly in both Olson andcleolinda's camps. Most people that approach professional writers in whatever field with pieces of their epic master works *are* just looking for glorified pats on the back. They don't want to hear the truth about their work, or the fact that their writer friends can't get them an 'in' with their agent/publisher/whatever. I mean, WTF? How do these people think those writers got their jobs in the first place? Of all the possible professions on the planet, I think writing is probably the one that benefits the LEAST from networking. Its a very solitary job, in more aspects than one.
As tocleolinda's dilemma, which minerva_one touches on in her post...well, the way I see it, we fanfic writers face the same conundrum. Though I've never received such, quite a few people in fandom have gotten the sort of "I love your story will you read and review AND RLY RLY CRIT mine? Here's the link OMGTHANX" non-review on a piece they've posted. Besides being fucking annoying (and disrespectful, especially when its obvious said reviewer didn't actually read your fic), its also treading into dangerous territory. How many wars have erupted in fandom over the "stealing of ideas"?
But wait, you protest. This is fanfic we're writing - we're already stealing ideas, from the original source material. After all, isn't that like the biggest criticism fanwriters face? ("Why can't/don't you write original stuff instead? Are you LAZY, or just unwilling?") I'd argue - no, its not. At least in IY fandom, there are a million different ways to "continue" the canon story, or endless possibilities for AUs. I understand we have a different level of acceptance from other fandoms, especially of the latter. I dabble quite a bit in AUs myself, not because I'm not interested in the original canon, but because I am really enjoying the core characteristics of the main cast, and would like to see how they fare in a different setting, most usually modern.
Anyway - when you write an AU, the idea is most generally original: the setting, the plot, sometimes even the pairings. Yes, we have tropes (*groan* geez, do we ever!) but everyone worth their salt at least attempts to put an original spin on it. I think anyone would be upset if they found someone 'stealing' their idea - I know I was, at the first inkling that someone would rip off all the world-building I'd done for something that sounded completely inane. And, IMO, that would be justifiable.
But - getting back to the heart ofcleolinda's comment - I wonder how much people realize they are influenced by what they read, watch, or listen to. I know I'm extremely paranoid about 'sub-conscious plagiarism', and thus, I tend to read very little in comparison to my output as a fanfic writer. One of the reasons I *am* so paranoid is because I can see the reflection of other multimedia in my work - what I've been watching, for example - that isn't always intentional.
To me, its not quite as big a deal when fanfic is the medium I'm working in. Style is flexible, and generally the stories rewarded with reviews, hits, and awards are those that stick very close to the norm for either canon or fanon. Clever little in-jokes, or bringing in something from another popular show, is something astute readers can get real kicks out of, and is something that can help boost the popularity of a fic or author. And besides, sometimes its intentional - I know different types of music lead to different types of fic (I listen to DMB for sex scenes, and Rage Against the Machine when I'm jonesing for some action/adventure), and I really enjoy writing straight-out songfic. I tend to immerse myself in investigative or true crime shows when I'm writing darkfic. I know the source of my research material when I'm aiming for a certain outcome.
And that? To me, that's fine. After all, what do writers do, other than redirect one type of media into another?
But when it comes to reading...I'm a bit tougher on myself.
I don't ever want to be put in the position of, "you stole my idea!" I'd never intentionally do that. Hell, I feel skeezy writing fic that's too close to the manga or anime (as in, lifting dialogue or particular action sequences). I've read my share of amazing fic, and if I know I got a certain bit from a fic, I'm going to credit that fic from here to eternity - like I did when lifting the title "House of the Moon" from Resmiranda's Tales from the House of the Moon in my Every Heart fic.
What I'm afraid of is not realizing that I've lifted something from someone else's work. Lines of dialogue especially stick with me (as anybody with an affinity for Grey's Anatomy who read the latest chapter of Fleeting can readily attest), though sometimes particularly impressive stylistic choices can as well.
So - I've found that I tend to read material by authors who have very different ideas and styles from mine (generally, writers I find on par with or better than my own material). For example - its neat to have the mind-meld withpsyco_chick32, but we tend to play with different characters - -who would, in turn, react in different ways to the same situation, and thus our fics would probably have wildly different outcomes even if they started from the same place.
Its a delicate balance, you know? Reading enough to know what's well-established and popular, but not reading so much that you're subconsciously lifting a style, or idea, or line of dialogue from someone else.
Fandom has a culture of shared ideas, so to some extent, its more acceptable for fanwork to maybe not be as original as original/professional fiction. I know I approach the two different situations completely differently. I don't have my fanfic beta'ed (GASP HORROR), but if I ever gathered up the nerve to send off original fiction for publication, I'd at least have a second pair of eyes look at it first...eyes I trusted implicitly, as there's a HUGE deal with passing around unpublished fiction and the ability you have to protect your intellectual property.
So in the midst of all my rambles, I'm asking my f-list a very general set of questions: how much do you read fanfiction, outside your own work and/or circle of friends? Do you tend to favor work that is very much like yours (in pairing, genre, tropes/cliches used), or do you find yourself reading work by someone who writes something outside your comfort zone? How much do you fear subconscious plagiarism, if at all? Are you even aware of how much your perception of the media around you influences your work? Do you care?
Inspired by a post from
minerva_one, who ganked it from cleolinda, let's take a look at why screenwriter Josh Olson has declared I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script.Please make sure you at least read the original article before continuing.
Frankly, I am firmly in both Olson and
cleolinda's camps. Most people that approach professional writers in whatever field with pieces of their epic master works *are* just looking for glorified pats on the back. They don't want to hear the truth about their work, or the fact that their writer friends can't get them an 'in' with their agent/publisher/whatever. I mean, WTF? How do these people think those writers got their jobs in the first place? Of all the possible professions on the planet, I think writing is probably the one that benefits the LEAST from networking. Its a very solitary job, in more aspects than one.As to
cleolinda's dilemma, which minerva_one touches on in her post...well, the way I see it, we fanfic writers face the same conundrum. Though I've never received such, quite a few people in fandom have gotten the sort of "I love your story will you read and review AND RLY RLY CRIT mine? Here's the link OMGTHANX" non-review on a piece they've posted. Besides being fucking annoying (and disrespectful, especially when its obvious said reviewer didn't actually read your fic), its also treading into dangerous territory. How many wars have erupted in fandom over the "stealing of ideas"?But wait, you protest. This is fanfic we're writing - we're already stealing ideas, from the original source material. After all, isn't that like the biggest criticism fanwriters face? ("Why can't/don't you write original stuff instead? Are you LAZY, or just unwilling?") I'd argue - no, its not. At least in IY fandom, there are a million different ways to "continue" the canon story, or endless possibilities for AUs. I understand we have a different level of acceptance from other fandoms, especially of the latter. I dabble quite a bit in AUs myself, not because I'm not interested in the original canon, but because I am really enjoying the core characteristics of the main cast, and would like to see how they fare in a different setting, most usually modern.
Anyway - when you write an AU, the idea is most generally original: the setting, the plot, sometimes even the pairings. Yes, we have tropes (*groan* geez, do we ever!) but everyone worth their salt at least attempts to put an original spin on it. I think anyone would be upset if they found someone 'stealing' their idea - I know I was, at the first inkling that someone would rip off all the world-building I'd done for something that sounded completely inane. And, IMO, that would be justifiable.
But - getting back to the heart of
cleolinda's comment - I wonder how much people realize they are influenced by what they read, watch, or listen to. I know I'm extremely paranoid about 'sub-conscious plagiarism', and thus, I tend to read very little in comparison to my output as a fanfic writer. One of the reasons I *am* so paranoid is because I can see the reflection of other multimedia in my work - what I've been watching, for example - that isn't always intentional.To me, its not quite as big a deal when fanfic is the medium I'm working in. Style is flexible, and generally the stories rewarded with reviews, hits, and awards are those that stick very close to the norm for either canon or fanon. Clever little in-jokes, or bringing in something from another popular show, is something astute readers can get real kicks out of, and is something that can help boost the popularity of a fic or author. And besides, sometimes its intentional - I know different types of music lead to different types of fic (I listen to DMB for sex scenes, and Rage Against the Machine when I'm jonesing for some action/adventure), and I really enjoy writing straight-out songfic. I tend to immerse myself in investigative or true crime shows when I'm writing darkfic. I know the source of my research material when I'm aiming for a certain outcome.
And that? To me, that's fine. After all, what do writers do, other than redirect one type of media into another?
But when it comes to reading...I'm a bit tougher on myself.
I don't ever want to be put in the position of, "you stole my idea!" I'd never intentionally do that. Hell, I feel skeezy writing fic that's too close to the manga or anime (as in, lifting dialogue or particular action sequences). I've read my share of amazing fic, and if I know I got a certain bit from a fic, I'm going to credit that fic from here to eternity - like I did when lifting the title "House of the Moon" from Resmiranda's Tales from the House of the Moon in my Every Heart fic.
What I'm afraid of is not realizing that I've lifted something from someone else's work. Lines of dialogue especially stick with me (as anybody with an affinity for Grey's Anatomy who read the latest chapter of Fleeting can readily attest), though sometimes particularly impressive stylistic choices can as well.
So - I've found that I tend to read material by authors who have very different ideas and styles from mine (generally, writers I find on par with or better than my own material). For example - its neat to have the mind-meld with
psyco_chick32, but we tend to play with different characters - -who would, in turn, react in different ways to the same situation, and thus our fics would probably have wildly different outcomes even if they started from the same place. Its a delicate balance, you know? Reading enough to know what's well-established and popular, but not reading so much that you're subconsciously lifting a style, or idea, or line of dialogue from someone else.
Fandom has a culture of shared ideas, so to some extent, its more acceptable for fanwork to maybe not be as original as original/professional fiction. I know I approach the two different situations completely differently. I don't have my fanfic beta'ed (GASP HORROR), but if I ever gathered up the nerve to send off original fiction for publication, I'd at least have a second pair of eyes look at it first...eyes I trusted implicitly, as there's a HUGE deal with passing around unpublished fiction and the ability you have to protect your intellectual property.
So in the midst of all my rambles, I'm asking my f-list a very general set of questions: how much do you read fanfiction, outside your own work and/or circle of friends? Do you tend to favor work that is very much like yours (in pairing, genre, tropes/cliches used), or do you find yourself reading work by someone who writes something outside your comfort zone? How much do you fear subconscious plagiarism, if at all? Are you even aware of how much your perception of the media around you influences your work? Do you care?
no subject
That said, I *know* I am influenced on a sub-conscious level quite often. For example, if I've been watching a lot of British comedies, my dialogue gets more irreverent and snappier. And I do the music thing too - Queen for happier scenes, NIN for angsty stuff, etc. I think it's impossible to avoid that entirely, and despite my paranoia, I know have to relax a bit sometimes and stay away from the hyper-sensitivity. I try to stay at the "extremely vigilant" level though.
Keeping my reading - fanfic and otherwise - broadly based helps. I don't think I'll ever write an S&M fic, but reading them definitely puts me outside of my customary Sess/Kag romance niche. ;)
no subject
Oh, God, I can only imagine. It probably would've been enough to completely drive me from fandom, even if I knew I'd done nothing wrong.
I have been extremely paranoid about sharing my work or letting others' work influence my own.
I find when I'm on a real writing jag, I don't read others' work at all. It's like - I'm in the zone, but I'm also the most vulnerable to influence? LOL, if that makes any sense. When the muses are quiet - that's when I get most of my backlog read. For some reason, that's when I'm most secure in my sense of style and form.
What can I say? I'm weird :P
And I do the music thing too - Queen for happier scenes, NIN for angsty stuff, etc. I think it's impossible to avoid that entirely
Music is an integral part of my process; it always has been, fanfic or original fic. I know I'm not unique in that, by any means :P but it does make me curious to see how the same music can influence people in different ways. After all, we all perceive the same song in different ways. I <3 NIN with a fiery passion, but I'd probably throw them on not for angst, but for something action-packed (or sexy, depending on the song, aheh).
Keeping my reading - fanfic and otherwise - broadly based helps.
There's research, and then there's everything else :) One day I'm going to redo my "author in her natural habitat" post, with all of my books. People might be pleasantly surprised.
I don't think I'll ever write an S&M fic, but reading them definitely puts me outside of my customary Sess/Kag romance niche. ;)
Personally, I think S/K S&M fic misses the point when it comes to characterization, especially of Sesshoumaru, but that's my own background speaking :P (I've said it often enough, but fandom has been the best use of my degree in psychology EVAR, LOL.) I'm extremely picky about what I read in that corner of fandom, moreso than others - probably because I've been burned so many times by various inhabitants.
Now, non-fanfic S&M? I have no issues with, LOL!
no subject
The other author was very sweet about the whole thing. Knowing that she regarded the whole thing as just as much of a load of crap as I did kept me sane and in the fandom. :)
It's like - I'm in the zone, but I'm also the most vulnerable to influence? LOL, if that makes any sense.
LoL. Makes perfect sense. I feel like if I'm "in the zone", I might not be paying as much attention to my influences as I should.
I <3 NIN with a fiery passion, but I'd probably throw them on not for angst, but for something action-packed (or sexy, depending on the song, aheh).
I didn't want to reveal myself as such a big NIN nerd, but I have different albums for different things. "With Teeth" is definitely sexier than "Pretty Hate Machine". :3 But in general, I do play NIN when I personally feel like getting some frustrations (or angst) out of my system. It was my catharsis during finals in law school. Hehe.
Personally, I think S/K S&M fic misses the point when it comes to characterization, especially of Sesshoumaru... I'm extremely picky about what I read in that corner of fandom
Agreed! LoL!
no subject
Well, that's a plus! At least you know she wasn't behind the hate machine in your reviews...and you prolly gained some (good) notoriety out of the whole incident, so maybe the pain was worth it?
I dunno. I can get really insecure about my work, and I think having that sort of crap come down on me would just be the straw that broke the camel's back. Because I don't read as much as I probably should, I sometimes lay in fear of releasing chapters of my work, just waiting for someone to come up and bitch and moan about something I'm doing wrong or stole from someone else.
I didn't want to reveal myself as such a big NIN nerd, but I have different albums for different things. "With Teeth" is definitely sexier than "Pretty Hate Machine". :3 But in general, I do play NIN when I personally feel like getting some frustrations (or angst) out of my system. It was my catharsis during finals in law school. Hehe.
No worries! You are among NIN nerd friends on this journal (I believe
Depending on my level of rage, I tend to listen to stuff that's very loud and aggressive - the first Papa Roach album is my go-to catharsis, but I also have Rage, Tool, System of a Down, Disturbed, etc in my arsenal.
Agreed! LoL!
I've found that people fall into one of two camps: either they read everything with a type of shallow enthusiasm, or they are extremely picky and only read a few selective authors, usually leaving thoughtful commentary in reviews. There's no real in between, which is interesting. I had no idea S/K was quite so polarizing, even among its own fans!
no subject
I probably did, actually. LoL. I remain nervous, but it also made me realize how idiotic some of the people over on FFN are. That helps ease the anxiety too. (I really must start a luxken-inspired list of crazy reviews I receive, lol - that really shows off the idiots to their fullest potential.)
No worries! You are among NIN nerd friends on this journal (I believe [info]farawayeyes4 is also a big fan) :D For some reason, that band in general tends to inspire very good work, no matter what the genre/pairing/setting, and that's no small feat :P
TR is completely gifted. NIN is definitely my cure-all - for my own personal angst and lack of muses, when it happens. I nearly cried when I went to the NIN/JA concert and everything said "Wave Farewell". Horror!
I had no idea S/K was quite so polarizing, even among its own fans!
Oh, yes. I'm definitely in the "few selective authors" camp. And what's more obnoxious than the one-word review of "update!"? I don't know if my reviews count as "thoughtful", but at least they contain more words. :D
no subject
I guess I've been lucky - flying under the radar as I do, I haven't received much in the way of flames or real WTFery (I've had some reviews that made me go WAT, but nothing truly mind-boggling...). *crosses fingers, knocks wood* I don't mind being relatively unknown if it keeps the crazies away!
And what's more obnoxious than the one-word review of "update!"?
Ones that berate you for something in your fic, when it becomes obvious the reader totally misunderstood and/or missed the point of your fic? Those irritate me the most, people who dare lecture me on something because they're wrong! ARGH!
I don't know if my reviews count as "thoughtful", but at least they contain more words. :D
Your comments to my stuff have been what I consider thoughtful, at least, so *shrug*
no subject
Okay, yeah - those are definitely worse. I'd take a thousand "Update!"s over a jerk like that. Especially the ones that are anonymous on FFN and so you can't point out their idiocy!
Your comments to my stuff have been what I consider thoughtful, at least, so *shrug*
:) I'm glad. Sometimes I feel like a daft fangirl in reviews. Hehe.