luxken27 | Holy meta, Batman

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Holy meta, Batman

For those of you interested in the meta-meta of writing, here is a recent, interesting post from

stop_plagiarism that dovetails very nicely into the last discussion post I held, No, I won't read your fucking story. There are very nice explanations of how the 'fandom hivemind' can sometimes work against an author, especially a non-native speaker, among other things.

Fair warning: the fandom is House, and the fic in question is so wildly OOC that it made my eyes bleed (srsly, people?! House crying? over pregnancy? *facepalm*), but the mod was nice enough to break down the essentials.

ETA: This is the original post to

stop_plagiarism; it has very nearly 50 comments of discussion as well.

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For a second, I thought the title of your post meant there was going to be meta on the Batman fandom and I was all excited and then I was less excited when I realized there wasn't. BUT THAT IS OKAY. THIS POST IS INTERESTING. Although not as interesting as Joker p33n, sorry to say. ;)

OMG I'm so sorry! Geez, the meta of Batman fandom would be so interesting and dark and creepy and o.O I'm not sure I would be able to survive it. Talk about your complex character motivations...

Although not as interesting as Joker p33n, sorry to say. ;)

Well if I ever find any that's palatable, you're the first person I'm contacting!

LOL. I would kill to read some good Batman meta. And IMO, all Joker p33n is good Joker p33n. ;)

And IMO, all Joker p33n is good Joker p33n. ;)

LOL, totes misread it as pr0nz, hence the nonsensical response :P

I guess I'm just too much of a medievalist and folklorist, back in the days where everybody stole and adapted from everybody else. I see everybody writing out of commonalities of shared concepts; in fandom, it's the fanon, which usually include a whole group of commonly used motifs or tropes. Most of us are at least somewhat derivative in how we conceive of our characters (sometimes, to the point of caricature of the original), what stresses, situations, events we run them through.

The sterotypical IK romance, for instance, assumes Inu and Kagome are madly in love with each other but neither of them know it. Some crisis is conceived that will push them to their limits and make one or the other confess their love (usually with the help of a big blow-out argument with much sitting), a youkai attack, a near rape or other crisis, like Kikyou trying to kill her. Kagome fears Inu sees her as weak and a substitute for Kikyou, usually. Inu rescues her and in a moment of bravery brought on by the situation, one or the other confesses their love, feeling fear and shame, and the other one surprises the first by admitting they feel the same way. They move from tentative first kisses to ripping their clothes off and first sex, usually by the well, by the Goshinboku, at a hot spring, or in a secluded place in the woods. Occasionally, as a variant, the sex takes place in her bedroom in the present, instead. The majority of writers include some sort of youkai marking ritual that usually involves biting.

I've seen that done by good writers and poor, but it's a real common pattern all through the IY fanfic until the end of the manga, where the reality of things changed a bit. It's a motif (one, in my devilish mind I call the Deflowering of Kagome).

A good question is, when does a motif become plagiarism? There's definitely clear cases of it, but there's gray ground too.

This was an interesting article. Food for thought.

But the stories under discussion...my goodness. House? Behave like that? LOL.

A good question is, when does a motif become plagiarism? There's definitely clear cases of it, but there's gray ground too.

This was an interesting article. Food for thought.

All I can say in response is...I completely agree with everything you've said. To attempt discussion would merely be to open the echo chamber, LOL :P If you read the original plagiarism report, you'll see that it wasn't the original author who found the "frightening similarities," but her readers/friends.

But the stories under discussion...my goodness. House? Behave like that? LOL.

OMG I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that reaction!!

And to judge really accurately, I'd had to know what the fanon is for House if it was too derivative...if it's a common scenario, then the complainers are full of it.

But on the other hand, I really don't want to know what House fanfic's fanon is like...

Wonder if the running of InuYasha: The Final Act is going to modify the InuYasha fanon any?

Wonder if the running of InuYasha: The Final Act is going to modify the InuYasha fanon any?

Well, if nothing else, those people who rely only on the anime for their story knowledge will have a better idea of what happened in the second half of the manga :P

I suspect a lot is going to be changed from the manga anyway (just...not enough episodes to cover everything) so no doubt fanon will change as well.

I just hope they don't cut out the Hell arc, the Hiraikotsu reborn arc, or the Bakusaiga arc *fingers crossed*

Wow! Very interesting. I have to confess, even without the google searches and voice nuances being pointed out, I was flabbergasted to see the one author accused of plagiarism. I didn't see enough similarities in any of them to warrant any suspicion at all and I don't think she should be on their watch list. As a matter of fact, the fourth story she was accused of plagiarizing seemed to be a close re-write of a specific episode. THAT person was closer to plagiarism of the canon script. LOL! Seriously, the fourth story she was accused of plagiarizing just seemed like someone else blindly tossing a torch at an accused witch.

Honestly, all of the plots except the accused person's fourth story seemed really common to me. If someone were going to plagiarize a story, I would hope they would choose something outstanding and good. ^_^

I was flabbergasted to see the one author accused of plagiarism. I didn't see enough similarities in any of them to warrant any suspicion at all and I don't think she should be on their watch list.

Well, if you even read the original report, the reporting author was urged to make said accusation at the behest of her readers/friends, not because she felt so hotly about herself. Its even worse in this case, I think, because the accused author is a non-native speaker and therefore more prone to choose fixed expressions to use in her work. Its just a matter of, how shared are those expressions, both in the fandom and in general?

If someone were going to plagiarize a story, I would hope they would choose something outstanding and good. ^_^

That seems so rarely to be the case, sorry to say...probably because they'd have more chance of being caught if said good story had a lot of faithful readers.

I agree with Knitting Knots on this one. The article was interesting and does give food for thought. Sess/Kag stories can be as stereotypical as Inu/Kag as well. Kagome catches Inu and Kikyou doing the nasty, runs away, meets up with Sesshoumaru...yada, yada, yada. I've read that version of events so many times, I typically turn away as soon as I realize that's the direction a fic is heading--and it's so commonly used it's one of the reasons I hardly search out any CU fics to read any more.

There comes a point when you cannot call plagiarism because someone used an idea that's been used dozens of times. While I can understand why that particular author was upset, as there were scenes that were eerily similar, there is a lot of gray in fandom writing (no matter which one you choose). I was speaking with a friend on mine of the subject the other day (on a Sess/Kag fic) and we decided to just call it 'being a mimic' because nothing was taken word for word, but the sameness was so startling it jumped out at you--even if you hadn't read the fic it was taken from in a long while.

As a side note and House fan (of the show, never read any fanfic for it), I cannot see House crying over something like that. I agree with the face palming there.

As a side note and House fan (of the show, never read any fanfic for it), I cannot see House crying over something like that. I agree with the face palming there.

Makes you glad you aren't in the fandom, no? And if that doesn't...this should O.O

Oh god. Why did you show that to me?!?! *head desk* I was so happy in my little world of House. I think I'll crawl back in, close the door, and not come out into the "other" world again.

Interesting post. I didn't read through everything, but using common plot elements (unplanned pregnancy?! It is eveywhere) is hardly plagiarism. I've never watched House...seems like the fandom hates condoms.

This is a good reminder of what a fucking scary place fandom can be - and often is. Like

madmiko says, that first post reads like a witch hunt. People don't need a valid reason to attack, they will blindly do so if they feel threatened in any way, even if the "stolen" parts are just fandom tropes or extremely common phrases.

Oh Lordie....

I just read that original post about the House fic. I had to stop rolling my eyes because it was giving me a headache. I read all of her comparisons (yours, mine, yours, mine) and to be honest I think she has her panties in a knot over nothing. The lines in question that were 'plagiarized' are so generic it's laughable. 'Get rid of it' was probably the worst. I don't even read House fanfiction and I can tell you that this is most likely the closest to in-character thing he could have said in that scenario. Christ almighty. If everyone in Inuyasha traipsed around pulling out three word sentences as evidence that they had been plagiarized, we would all be up to our eyeballs in snark (even moreso than normal!) This was a good break in my day - thanks for posting ;) I'll pop back out now and mind my own business hahaha

This was a good break in my day - thanks for posting ;)

You're welcome! I try my best to be thought-provoking, good or bad :P

I'll pop back out now and mind my own business hahaha

Nooooooooooooooo *clings* I hardly see you anymore so don't disappear on me again!

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Holy meta, Batman

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